Why Mac Zealots Militant Mac Zealots Piss Me Off

Amen! I quit using the mac in 96 or so when I couldn't find any stat software. Now I simply find the idea of the menu on the top of the screen to me a screwy idea. Especially on large monitors ("you mean I have to trek this one button mouse across all that real estate to use the menu?"). It's interesting to note that this idea was considered a "breakthrough"!?!? See Folklore.org - "Busy Being Born".

fellow BEOS fan

Lol, yeah, the single menu thing tends to confuse a lot of Mac programmers when they come over to Windows. They figure that they only need one menu bar for multiple windows -- which is why you see a ton of Mac apps ported as MDI windows. Yech!

I've got the opposite viewpoint to you on this one, Aaron: I love the Mac and I hate Windows (which I also use, but only out of necessity). In fact I've just ported a Mac application to Windows, along with all the Mac-like gadgets etc. I hope that dig wasn't directed at me? Ah well, each to his own, right! I actually think Apple & Microsoft are so good at stealing ideas off each-other, we'll end up with two practically identical platforms.

Charlie -- first, this isn't a dig on you at all (in fact, I haven't had the chance to check out the Windows beta), sorry if you took it that way! It's a general bitch-fest. Second, you're more than welcome to your opinion on which is the better OS. But if you plan on selling your Windows product, you will find that sales aren't going to be too great because most people will take one look at your app, get a bad feeling about it because it's not what they're used to, and never try it again.

Uh, pot meet kettle? Zealotry is an ugly thing, and most of us Mac fanboys are just as sick of our more vocal, dogmatic peers making the majority of us look bad. Responding in kind isn't going to win you any accolades though. If you're judging a few ten million of us by the half dozen zealots in the Ars Battlefront... Well, I can only tell you that there is a whole world outside the forums.

You are right about a two button mouse with a scroll wheel. Having said that, you can plug in any mouse you wish. Having been a windows guy all my life, Mac OS X, in my opinion, is just easier to get around, find files, real PLUG n PLAY, etc.. And yes there may be 12 of us, but just as there are fewer BMW than Fords, I would rather have the product which is more elegant, powerful, and less prone to breaking down.

As a long-time Mac user, all I can say is, "Who cares?"

S.

I have to give you credit for some of your complaints because a zealot is a bad thing, but do you honestly think Mac users have a corner on the market of zealot? You would be sadly mistaken. Sorry they bug you, but ignore them.

As for the comment about the menu at the top of the screen: Yeah, the menu at the top of the screen is so much worse than it being at the bottom. Get real! There is no distance advantage either way and if there were, the milisecond it would take to flick the pointer up there is hardly worth counting. My point is that your dig is only about the way you do things and has nothing to do with usability. And yeah, using a menu with a mouse was huge thing. It was so huge Microsoft adopted and if you use Windows you use it too.

Phew, I walk away for 30 minutes and come back to a firestorm. :-P

@Joel -- you're correct, zealots exist for everything (can you say "Amiga"? :-P) My response is still my own opinion after working with cross platform development for a number of years. But I do agree, you can't judge the entire group based on a few vocal people. So maybe I should have qualified the title with "Militant Mac Zealots".

@Carl -- I realize you can do that (it's why I have a 5 button mouse plugged in right now), and you better hope the hardware works better (since it's a controlled motherboard). So yes, in terms of plugging things in, it's easy to use. But my personal experience on Windows is that it's easy there too. Maybe I just buy standard hardware (I doubt it), but I've been able to plug the same stuff into both platforms with no issues.

@Steve K -- :: shrugs :: no idea, I was just blowing off steam. But it seems that people who've never commented on my blog before care enough to comment now.

Sheesh, I get done responding and there are more posts (this isn't a complaint, I actually am enjoying this)! :-)

@Pete -- I don't like ignoring issues, I'd rather rant and hope that some people (probably no one here though since no one has struck me as the "bad type") realize that Mac software on Windows is generally a bad idea. However, you seem to be confused on something. The Start bar is far from a menu (but I guess in a warped way they have some of the same functionality) conceptually. I personally don't mind the global menu on the Mac; I've come to expect it and understand it. However, I don't think the concept has any place on Windows (aside from MDI, which I think is well past its prime). But you do bring up another good point about something that really irks me. When Mac software is ported to Windows and they don't realize that many users don't use the mouse aside from when they have to. Keyboard focus issues are huge problems for ported software.

@Pete again -- btw, in response to "My point is that your dig is only about the way you do things and has nothing to do with usability." I respectfully disagree with you on that point. I do more with user interface guidelines than the average Joe does by a large margin, which is exactly why this rant came up in the first place.

Spend a couple of bucks and buy a new mouse, keyboard - wireless or not. My Mac uses them all. I have used PC's and Macs since the Mid 80's - mainframes before and after that. I found that I used the Macs more often and with more fun than PC's. Now, I use a PC if I have to for some arcane software. However, the new Mac OSX is better, more stable with more choices - UI, Unix and other than what I get from my PC's. I will admit that the software overhead in OSX so far makes the crispness of the PC somewhat more pleasant. However, there are limits to what one needs and the line was crossed some time ago. However, the current BEST thing about the Macs I use at home - alwas on and always connected to the internet: no viruses, not one, in the last four years. The biggest problem I have with my PC's constant security issues (real security issues). My son in college a PC person (due to gaming choices) just converted over to a Mac Mini becuase he could not keep his computer up and running due to the constant virus generated problems. When Microsoft bites the bullet and completely rewrites its software (as Apple did) then I may reconsider my preferred options. Until then I prefer the Macs if a choice is available.

Well at least they arent as bad as the right-wing zealots.

@Ray -- I won't bother going into why there's a lack of Mac viruses, but don't whine when your Windows box is insecure. I've had Windows installed on a home machine at all points in time over the last 10 years and can count the number of viruses I've gotten on one grenade blasted hand. Yes, Windows certainly has security issues. So does Linux. So does the Mac. So does every OS out there.

You're certainly welcome to run any OS you'd like (anyone is!), and you don't need to defend your choices to me.

What my rant is about is not whether Mac is better than Windows. I honestly don't care -- use whatever tool gets the job done for you. It can be DOS for all I care! This rant is about how developers on the Mac tend to firmly believe their OS has the best UI around and it's perfectly acceptable to foist it off on Windows users as well.

LoL @ anon -- finally, someone with a sense of humor about this topic. :-)

Your recriminations about UI shortcomings in Mac OS X are spot-on. Despite this, I still find OS X more usable, and MUCH more elegant, than XP (I also use both regularly). And regarding your rant in Mac users: you failed to discriminate between the zealots (a minoirity) and most users. Next time please double-check which orifice is talking.

I can understand your frustration, why? Simply because this is how Windows "programmers" have done when they have "ported" their stuff to the Windows platform. It goes both ways.

@Jem -- you are 100% correct. Sorry if that wasn't emphasised enough in my rant. It pisses me off to see that on the Mac as well (enter Internet Explorer for Mac)

@Pat -- yeah, which is why I changed the title to Militant Mac Zealots. I figured that would imply the vocal, insane, minority. :-P As for usability, I find both have their annoyances and great features. I'm mostly ranting in terms of software development.

Windows users don’t want a Mac experience. We (typically) don’t like the Mac, and find the user experience to be less than pleasant.

WRONG. Windows users have no or little experience with the Mac, yet feel the need to share their dis-pleasure with the OS (not aimed at you, but most PC users in general.)
I know, because I was one of the "I hate Macs, they suck" zealots and met MANY other people who would join me in saying the same thing. Yet, if you asked us why, and wanted a response with some details, you'd be hardpressed to get a decent answer.

you're right to say that there are problems with the mac UI, especially in OSX. most long-time mac users don't like the brushed metal interface either. we ask, WTF? just like you do. however, on the subject of contextual menus....when in the finder, press control. see the menu icon appear? there is your visual cue. as for the multibutton mouse issue, i agree it's time to abandon the single button mouse. that being said, if you plug in a mouse with 2 buttons, you can right click all day, so i don't understand the furor. to each his/her own.
as for mac users themselves i could write my own tome on the insufferable nature of die-hard windows users, but it would probably bore you. suffice to say that each platform has it's zealots and their fervor, while usually overblown, contains at least a few elements of truth. windows DOES exists because DOS users wanted a GUI like the mac. macs ARE generally more expensive to buy and have less software. OSX has no viruses yet and mac users do have it easier in that regard. not everything apple makes is good or even smart.
here is my point of contention....there seem to be so many more unhappy windows users...and not just because the sample size is larger. they bitch about windows but refuse to stop sucking at the teat. they reformat their hard drives, reinstall the OS, fight spyware, phishing and viruses but will never do the one thing that would bring them relief, and that is to explore their computing options. penguin-heads are insufferable in their own way...but at least they had the nuts to try something different. most windows users feel trapped and yet they won't do anything about it. this is what makes mac users truly irate...
if you try a mac and don't like it...that's fine. stick with with what works for you. the bitter fact is that windows users generally deserve the misery they get because they refuse to stand up and demand something better. you believe that "something better" isn't the mac. that's fine. at least you've explored the question. my problem is with the vast majority who haven't. their ignorance is what really powers the windows monopoly and microsoft knows it. believe what you will....

OH, btw. That goes both ways for Mac Zealots who still bring up the stupid "BSOD"...

I must say, you have some valid gripes. I've been using Macs since 1986, and the one button mouse pisses me off to no end as well. I don't have the same UI issues you do, in fact prefer Mac to Windows. Everyone has their own preference. However, I can give you some insight as to why Mac users get as zealous as they do sometimes. It's because for every Mac zealot you encounter, they've endured dozens of verbal assaults like the one you just launched. It's a little better now than it was a few years back, but there was a time in the mid-late 90's when if I even mentioned the fact that I use a Mac outside of my select group of Mac using friends, I would get assaulted by even total strangers about how stupid Macs are, how stupid I am for using one, how useless Macs are, blah, blah, blah. After having endured this time and time again, we tend to get a little defensive. Being treated like an outcast can do that to you. So perhaps if you were a bit nicer to people who use Macs, they would be a little less "zealoty" towards you. Just a suggestion.

Aaron,

Why have a Mac if you're displeased with it? Why pay attention to so-called Mac Zealots when they vex you so?

I've used both machines (well, I also used CP/M way back when, too, and DOS, of course) and for me nothing compares with a Mac. That you believe Windows parallels the Mac experience, and in some cases exceeds it, is, well, astonishing. I used to get all involved in the computer process (this was in my pre-Mac days) and took a certain pride in making the Microsoft crap work, fixing friends' machines, trouble-shooting, all that. When I went to the Mac platform all of that just sort of went away. I became out-put oriented. It wasn't about the machine anymore, but what I could do with it.

I still have to use a Windows machine occasionally, which prompts this question. Do you really not see the difference between the two experiences, or do you... crave attention for your blog?

My advice (I know, you didn't ask for it) is dump that Mac right now. Specialize in Microsoft and open source aps and iron. Leave the Mac world to those fanatics who piss you off so. Life's too short, Aaron.

Best wishes,

Richard Taylor

If you hate the Mac and all its experience, then why spend so much time reading, writing and ranting about? I'm sure you're energy is needed elsewhere...like virus-system install, security updates, IT issues, etc....For someone (and a lot of windoze users, actually) why direct so much attention to something you can't stand? If you don't like it—don't use it; don't like us—don't bother with us and move on. As for your anger, tell a shrink, we could care less....we spend our time on computer hobbies that work and are rewarding. Windoze users are the ONLY ones exerting all the negative energy.
Save it up for all the complaining you should be doing to Microsoft for all the crap they are selling to you like a bunch of blind children waiting in front of the candy store. Don't forget to brush!

Eat a stiff one straight up, cracker!

@Jack -- That's a common response. However, I use a Mac, and I work with cross platform development, and I do a lot of usability work. And one thing I've seen over and over again is that Mac ports make Windows users unhappy because it "feels wrong". No one can ever point out what feels wrong until they've done a lot of research.

@David -- good call about the Finder. I was using Safari, Mail and other Apple applications as a benchmark for that. As for the well-put post about whether Mac is better than Windows -- see my previous comments about why this isn't an OS-of-choice debate.

@Eric -- the people I deal with on a daily basis are primarily Mac developers, and I see more "Windoze" bashing now than I have ever see with Mac bashing from Windows developers. My gripe isn't with Mac *users* -- it's with Mac *developers* who have a superiority complex. And...I have the same gripe with Windows developers who take the same attitude. What my gripe is about is that I want people to realize that they're two different OSes, and so shoving concepts from one onto the other is a Bad Thing.

Some of the commentary was "Spot On" such as the inconsistant use of Metal windows.
As far as the single Menu Bar is concerned: it was designed to be efficient on a single 9" display back in '84. Maybe it is time to re-think it. There is some historical consistency to maintaining it the way it is.
Hidden Options? Some are more hidden than others. The "Hide App" and "Hide *Other* Apps" option is in the "Apple" menu as well as by [Control]+Clicking. [Control] and [Option]clicking are documented in the starter guide and system "Help" files; I don't really consider them any more poorly hidden than "Right Clicking". Both platforms could be better about this ;-)
Single Button Mouse: Ah yes, the debate goes on! As the default I can accept it, although I use a two button+scroll trakckball, especially because it is eastier for small children, the elderly, and others with out fine motor control to manipulate. It is an entry point, not a power user feature, and there will always be people who benefit from the simplified One Button Mouse.
Zealots: all platforms have them, and can do without them. Those truly interested in improving the user experience of computing in general should be open to the methods, preferences, rationals, and critiscism from other platforms.
'nuff said.
DX

@Richard -- I work for a company that develops a cross-platform programming language (think Visual Basic meshed with Java). So I actually do extensive work on Mac, Windows and Linux. We have a pretty close split between the number of users on Mac and the number of users on Windows, so I deal with both camps daily. What's interesting is, the closest thing to a "dig" on Mac dev work that I ever see is people calling it a MAC. However, the Mac users constantly bash Windows.

As for the attention craving -- I'm shocked at the response. And saddened that I didn't get my main point across well enough. I don't care about Mac vs Windows as an OS. I care about developer's attitudes towards developing cross platform applications. But people see "Mac Zealot" and jump on the OS flamewar band wagon. Honestly -- both OSes suck and BeOS is by far the best designed OS I've ever seen. :-P

What a horribly written piece of tripe! Why, dear Lord, did I waste my precious time reading this?! A few helpful hints: a) proofread, b) try not to end sentences with prepositions, c) take a writing class, and d) start a blog AFTER you graduate from high school.

@Art -- you missed the point completely.

@Dalex -- You bring up some good points. Thanks for the input!

The only reason I'm a Mac fan is because I've windows over the years. In fact I've been using personal computers from the very begining of the industry. Apple II's/ CP/M computers/ Commodore Vic-20 and 64 later the Amiga. Loved the Amiga! However it did not last. Then I used Dos on the PC for several years and later Windows...I saw Windows 2.0 and 3.0 later 3.1. Was impressed with the improvements of Windows 95 over 3.1. Still the Mac worked best for me. Love OSX though it did take some time to get use to it. Like Windows 2000 Pro which I am running on my iMac G5 20" screen model. Still after so many years and so many computer systems including such odd ducks as the Osborne and Adam computers I have to say that OSX is sweet. However this is but my personl exerpience. Oh and I've built countless PC's and sold them as well..owned my own computer store for a while.

Pagan jim

I tend to use and at one time have developed for just about every platform, including the old Apple ][, TRS-80s, most versions of Unix and now only dabble in XP and OS X development.

That said, I tend to prefer the Mac. You have some valid points. The classic Mac OS had a much better GUI in it's day, but suffered from modern buzz-compliant underpinnings, etc. In some ways, the OS X GUI has taken a step back, but in other ways, it's moved forward. Now let's address some of your issues.

1. Metal Windows. This is highly subjective. I actually prefer metal windows, but I do recognize this is controversial, even amongst "Mac Zealots". Consistency is more of an issue with OS X than in the Classic OS, but probably still less then other operating systems. Actually, metal is supposed to be used for applications that do not create documents. That is, metal should not be used for a word processor. Though a web browser is capable of saving an html document, that's far from it's primary purpose and therefore acceptable usage of the metal interface.

2. Mice. Yes, I agree with you in that Apple should ditch the one-button mouse. That said, OS X fully supports multi-button wheel mice right out of the box in full form and function. Likewise, your gripe is legitimate if directed to Apple, the hardware company, but meaningless if directed towards OS X the operating system.

3. You make mention of bugs in the "Window manager", but I'm not sure what you're talking about as I have never experienced an issue similar to what you describe whereby two windows are active and I can't use either. You also mention that you could come up with more issues, but seeing as though you've mentioned the common "Wintel zealot" complaints, I somehow doubt it.

4. OS X surely isn't perfect, but let's be honest, it is head and shoulders above anything else. If you happen to be a fan of Windows, you may be interested in an entire website dedicated to the myriad of "annoyances" it has: http://www.annoyances.org/

5. You would be taken more seriously if you were to just list your issues with OS X without all of the "Macs sucks" language involved. As you've presented your argument, all you've done is list a few trivial and mostly subjective issues with OS X and come off as an "MS Fan boy" in the process. I surely hope that wasn't your intention.

6. I do agree with your platform consistency issue. When on Windows, I expect a program to behave like other Windows programs. The same goes for the Mac.

Finally, it would seem that you have more of issue with zealots than with the Mac itself. You make comments about "slow piece of hardware that comes with OS X installed on it". That leads me to believe that you've never used a G5 tower, or more likely that you are a zealot yourself. Perhaps you can clarify your position on this.

Steve

Some applications have a metal window, some don't.
Personally I don't care what color they are.

If the color of the window in iTunes is really causing you that much consternation I recommend that you consider getting a life.

@Steve -- So many points, so little time. ;-) 1) I'm going off the original HIG from when metal was introduced. I think Apple's revised it a few times since then. 2) Not programming related. 3) I get into this state with CodeWarrior on a daily basis. It displays a modal dialog telling me it found some random files, then it displays another modal dialog telling me it's missing some files. Both dialogs steal focus from one another (so I can't click OK in either one) and CW is locked. This is an issue with the window manager (though CW certainly should be smarter). 4) Not programming related, and entirely subjective. 5) I was frustrated, and yes, I realize I came across as an MS Fanboi. It wasn't my intention, but it happened, and I'm not ashamed. :-P 6) Good, we both agree on the main point of my rant. :-) As for 7) if I could afford one, I'd get one for my dev work. But currently I use a G4, and it's fast enough with 10.3 installed on it (though it was horrible to use 10.0 and 10.1 on). But I really do take issue with zealotry more than the hardware.

I used to sound like you until i found Zoloft.

I have a real simple solution for you: don't use a friggin' Mac. Sheesh

Wow. Nicely written...

While I'm a long time Mac user, I try to avoid the fan-boy tendencies. First off, I agree with you with the "metal windows." While I don't dislike them as much as you, it would be nice to have some rules about when they might be appropriate. Unfortunately, the current rule seems to be that if Apple thinks it's cool, it should be a metal window. Very annoying.

When it comes to the two button mouse, let's just say I strongly disagree. Besides the "people who drool" argument, I have a hard time believing that the two-button mouse is any more efficient than the one-button mouse. Yeah, maybe for games when I have to switch weapons, but for normal use? Again, where the one-button mouse works is in conjunction with the earlier poster-berated menu bar. Use a one-button mouse on Windows with the menu bar in the window and watch the frustration--I do it all the time when I was use Windows (because I never think to use the second button).

In regards to modifier keys, these are usually "shortcuts." To use your example of option-clicking to hide the current application, I could use the "long way" of going down to the application's icon in the dock and choosing "Hide" before switching applications or I could go to the application menu and do the same thing. So the option key is used as a "quicker" way of doing this--but it's not the ONLY way of doing it.

I agree wholeheartedly, though, about Mac people porting software to Windows (and I also agree with the converse). The Mac is not Windows, nor is Windows the Mac. The analogy I use with other developers--which will generate a *click* of understanding if they speak a foreign language--is to use English and French. After all, English and French are the same language. They both have letters, words, sentences, paragraphs, adjectives, adverbs, etc. So all that's involved in translating English to French is to just look up different words! Of course, when you translate like that, you get stereo instructions. Can it be understood? Yes. Is it the kind of thing you WANT to read? No. Same thing with applications.

(If I need to make the point clear to someone who does not speak a foreign language, I'll use the phrase I learned in grade school. I'm not sure if it's true--some French person may be able to speak up. The phrase "I am hot" literally translates to "Je suis chaud." Yet, in the French parlance, "Je suis chaud" means "I am horny"--J'ai chaud is "I am hot". Which translates back to English as "I have heat.")

A Mac is not Windows and Windows is not a Mac. Just because they both have windows, icons, menus, and buttons doesn't mean that things make sense when you translate all of them.

Here are a few good examples:

Example 1: Way way back in the mid-80s, when Apple released the Macintosh II, AutoCAD did a straight port to the Macintosh--interface and all. Thus, using AutoCAD on the Mac looked just like using AutoCAD on the PC. In AutoDesk's defense, they realized this was bad. Their plan was to release it and then take the money they made from that to build a "sort-of-Mac" version and, with that money, build a real Mac version. Of course, the Mac users promptly turned up their nose at the first version, saying that they'd wait. Because of that, AutoCAD didn't make enough money to do the "sort-of-Mac" version and left the Mac market because of Apple's small market-share. Of course, the reason they did the development initially was that people WERE interested in AutoCAD on the Mac--just not in a ported PC version.

Example 2: Microsoft Word 6.0 for the Mac. This was a port from the Windows version. It is universally hated by Mac users. Most didn't upgrade from Word 5--only those people who HAD to. It also made lots of Mac users go look at WordPerfect. Frankly, it was the first time that Microsoft actually LOST marketshare with Word. That made the people at Microsoft sit up and take notice and is one of the reasons that Microsoft's Mac Business Unit was founded.

Example 3: Older versions of QuickTime Player for Windows. I don't know alot about this, being a Mac user, but the first time I saw it on a friend's PC, I went "Yuck!". You had the giant application window containing the menus and a player window containing the movie. Even as a Mac user, I knew this was just plain wrong. But I'm sure that it made it easier to move it to Windows. I hear it's gotten better under Windows, but I've never seen it so I don't know. But I can just imagine a Windows user seeing this crap and immediately saying, "QuickTime sucks! I'll stick with Video for Windows!"

@Peter -- LoL, I love that analogy! Off-topic: I read a shirt recently that said "if the French were so smart, why don't they speak English?". :-P And thank you for validating my blog entry. I was beginning to think no one read the content, just the title. ;-)

First off, you're getting a lot of posts because this entry ended up on a popular Mac news site (macsurfer.com).

Secondly, I have been a Mac user since the original 128k model. I used to love to sneak on to a Windows machine at work to change or delete a Word document's extension and then watch with glee as my poor co-worker struggled to try and open it. "Stupid Windows", I would say. My Mac doesn't have something as arcane as file extensions! Whenever there was a problem on a Windows machine I would see the IT guy messing around with the command line interface. "Stupid Windows", I would say. My elegant Mac interface doesn't need a CLI.

Well guess what. My Mac running OS X now has those stupid file extensions and a command line interface. And guess what else? My PC running XP is now easier for me to use. My PC immediately recognized the new wireless network extension I installed, and my new Ethernet printer. I struggled for about an hour to get my Mac running OSX to see it.

I'm running most of my applications on Mac OS 9, and have decided to gradually move my applications over to XP, and after 20 years to leave the Mac platform.

This is not a decision I make lightly, but with OS X and XP being nearly identical the "Mac experience" is gone for me. Why wouldn't I go to the land of less expensive CPU's and abundant software?

@Robert -- LOL So that explains it! Thanks for the tip

How frickin pathetic that you get all riled up because some people think(or know) that the Mac gui is superior.

Get a life

Most Mac users are rather normal, and many of them agree with your complaints. I have gone so far as to use a utility (Safari Enhancer) to remove the brushed metal from Safari! And I hate one button mice. But let's put this in context, it would have been far, far worse if Apple had forbidden right button/scroll wheel support instead of allowing that support to exist, which they do. I've used Macs all my life and I really don't have any problem with your opinions, except that the way you expressed them - the amount of swearing and negativity in the post - make you sound like a Windows zealot, which isn't any better than the sad Mac zealots who are making the Mac look bad, or any other platform ranter. Oh, and I think Windows handles context menus better, for example, when you right-drag a file you get a nice menu with your choices it in, where on the Mac you have to guess what the modifier keys are and what they do.

@John -- I agree, most Mac users are very normal. I work with a bunch of them. Heck, I *am* one of them (writing this on OS 10.3.7 as we speak). People seem to be taking the rant out of context, which is unfortunate. I figured the handful of developers who read my blog daily would understand that I was blowing off steam.

Macs are the best, We are better educated and have higher incomes.
Best part of this is that you know it's all true !

I am a Mac user. I see some (what I consider) stupid things in the way the interface behaves. It is not perfect. It is however very adaptable. You just have to use it for a while to find ways that it can be altered to make it more acceptable to the ways you might use it. I also use Windows (not "Windoze". I get tired of that crap!) I much prefer Macs. Saying all computers are "vulnerable" to viruses (virii?) is correct. To infer that all computers therefore GET viruses or get them equally or are
EQUALLY vulnerable, or that the lack of viruses on the Mac platform is just because no one bothers to write them is however incorrect - especially for the average user.
That said, I also HATE the mindless Mac "zealots" whose comments I have to wade thru on various Mac sites to try to find a few valid or insightful comments. (kind of like reading "aRt" or "Donald Duck". Too many afraid to use their real names?) I would say that this is not a Mac user phenomenon. It is a general lack of civility that seems to be increasing in our society. A generalized dismissal of responsibility for our own actions and a lack of acceptance of other's actions that don't have anything to do with us. I could go on and on about examples and causes. It applies to Mac users and Windows users, Left wing and Right (and legs necks and breasts.) I applies to Christians, Jews and Muslims (but rarely to Budhist's - think about it. - I am not one!), fans of sports teams, drivers of Honda's and RX-7's. Is it the ego and security of 'belonging' to a group? My way or the highway? America, love it or leave it?
Sorry! In the name of humanity I will end MY rant. Got carried away and slid a bit off topic. I suppose I should have just deleted my comment but I didn't want to waste a good rant! My apologies to all! :)

@Steve -- thanks for the intelligent comment. I agree with you 100% on all your points. :-)

What I personally find really sad, is that many of the "young" developers have only seen one interface (Windows) so no matter what they do, they always try to emulate a Windows environment even when it's completely stupid (Why try to emulate a Windows environment on wrist watch etc). Everybody have their favourite platform (in my case OS X 80%, linux to 19% and Windows 1%) but everybody should at least have spent some time on other platforms to discover other ways of doing thing.

Twenty years on.....still the same silly arguments.
I have the original Mac up in the attic, now there's 5 in the house on a Airport network, and iPods in everyones pockets. All I know is that they turn on, run all day, never get sick. That's all I need to know when it comes to my buying choice.
The thing that pisses Mac users off the most about windows is that Bill stole the basic UI, put out a cheaper, crappier version, and used illegial buisiness tactics to rule the world. Until he goes to the big house and pays for his sins as someones wife we won't be happy.

@jem -- I agree! I don't think it's possible to write a decent cross-platform application without having a copy of the OS installed for you to test on, and without trying to make sure it feels like the other apps there. If you've never seen a Mac, how can you write good Mac software (and vice versa)?

“if the French were so smart, why don’t they speak English?"

If the shirt's designer is so smart, why doesn't he keep the verb tenses consistent?

If your rant can be so specific, why can't your title? How about "Why Militant Mac Developers Piss Me Off." If your title and content betray your intent, it's not our fault.

Concerning grammar and intent, the liberal use of profanity lowers your argument's appeal and makes you look uneducated and unattractive, sort of like having a brushed metal interface.

To the author of the "Mac Zealot" rant:
Seriously, dude... You need to get out more often.

Two of your three initial complaints are not exactly fact based. You don't like metal windows - that's your opinion. Personally, I don't really care but you're okay with hating them - it's just not eactly a serious crippling user flaw.

Second - the 1-button mouse which is really tied into your third comment - you are right - the whole OPTION COMMAND thing could work better but as MS proves, having a 2-button mouse is pointless when the sub menus are NOT consistent ... only MS would put an important forewall setting ONLY accessable in the right click menu.

Yes, I like a right hand click function but it is confusing to newbies - easier for a one-button mouse and if you want 2-button functions (built into OSX) buy a $10 2-button mouse - it's not a tragedy - you should concetrate on being upset at bigger things.

SHUT THE FUCK UP! This post is so stupid. Seriously.

Ramblings is an appropriate name for your blog.

Heeeee, Heeeee, Heeeee. I love it when geeks go "tilt". I agree with #53.

What I hate about the Mac is the lack of software. While I can choose from hundreds of virus and spyware programs for my PC, how many are available for the Mac? Four, maybe? And the lack of drivers to install bugs the hell out of me, too. When I plug my new scanner into my PC, I know that when I go download it, there's a pretty good chance it will be the right one. But when I plug it into my Mac, it starts working as if it's really the right driver. How can t be so sure?
And who in their right mind wants to look at all the open windows by hitting one key? With my PC, I can cycle through them, one key-hit per window--much more logical.
And reboots. You get these Mac asshats bragging about being up and running for months on end, but that's a lot riskier than just rebooting every other day, which assures you of a fresh start.
Screw the Mac!

When moving a Mac user over to windows, I am always amazed at how they fail to understand the LOGIC of the windows platform -- such as showing someone how to shut down their machine -- first you click on the button that says "START."

Yeah.

Why PC users piss me off....because they are still breathing...assholes

@Hooty -- sorry, I don't usually respond to flames, but I feel like I should point out the intelligence of dragging a mounted volume to the *Trash* to eject it. At least with later iterations of OS X they changed the icon to the Eject icon, but still.

Chip. You probably also plagiarized your papers in school, right? Very original (not!) comment. How about attributing to the source rather than acting as if this was your creation? As noted above, I am a Mac user.

Interface Inconsistancies?
I have been a Mac user for almost 20 years, and the main thing that bus the absolute shit out of me about Windows is this...why can't I (for example) ALWAYS use CTRL + C to copy something. On the Mac, I can.
I bring this up because you did...you talk about how you should be able to use the same keystrokes from application to application, but can you REALLY do that on Windows? I didn't think so.
You have to remember that the Mac OS is designed for ANYONE to be able to use it, and for the most part, people don't use key shortcuts. Power users do use them, and if they really want to know what they are, they will ask.
Did you had look in the HELP file? The Mac OS has a pretty good system of help, and in it you will find ALL of the key shortcuts for the OS, just do a search for 'Shortcuts', and you can print them out and use them all of the time.

@Neal -- What can't you copy? If an application doesn't let you copy something when hitting Ctrl+C, then it's a poor application and doesn't follow interface guidelines. It's no different than if that poor software was on the Mac -- in either case it would be doing the wrong thing. As for using the same keystrokes from app to app on Windows -- you generally *can* so long as their standard (assuming the software is professional and decently written). Same as on the Mac. I agree that most Mac users don't use shortcuts (though I don't think that's as true on Windows).

Thanks for the reply, I was just using Copy (CTRL+C) an an example, but my point is that different Applications (especially from different vendors) have always had different shortcuts, so I just learn what they are and go about my business.

For example, I switch back and forth all day between Illustrator, Photoshop, Excel and Word. Now...for the Adobe programs, I can use Shift+Cmd(Apple Key)+P to bring up the Page Set Up Dialog box (also in most of Apple's apps, too). But in the Office Suite, I have to go to the File Menu and Select 'Page Setup'.

The real reason I am so down on Microsoft is that they find something they like, they change it just enough to get away with it, slap a proprietary format on it and claim it as an 'Industry Standard'. Sorry for the tangent.

@Neal -- On Windows, Page Setup never has a keyboard shortcut (as per the user interface guidelines), so that makes sense to me. However, if you're talking about Office on the Mac, then it's a bug and it should be reported. I agree with your tangent about MS, they tend to be bastards a lot of the times. But that doesn't mean I want ported software to go against the standards Microsoft uses unless there's a good reason for it. It's no different than me wanting Microsoft to follow Apple standards when Office runs on the Mac.

"I feel like I should point out the intelligence of dragging a mounted volume to the *Trash* to eject it. At least with later iterations of OS X they changed the icon to the Eject icon, but still."

In other words, it's not that way. What's it like, living in the past?

I also love the way that the one-button mouse annoys you so. It's a bitch when the Mac can offer an interface adaptable enough for kids and grandmas (like mine) to use, isn't it? Kinda knocks you off your techno-snob pedestal, doesn't it?

Believe it or not, a more sophisticated tool is _easier_ to use, since more work was spent on how it works. Apple epitomizes ease-of-use, as their success with the iPod shows in spades. Go ahead and waste your time tinkering, I'll get on with real work.

The PowerBook in front of me has an uptime of 81 days right now, since the last time I updated software (painlessly, I might add). I've got 16 apps running, which is typical, and I simply close the lid at work, take it home, open the lid and keep working. The sophistication of a system that can handle whatever I throw at it (without missing a beat even when I change networks) is why I'm a Mac owner (we have five at home now). I don't want to waste my time fighting off malware or playing tech support guru (although I was once a sys admin for a major computer corporation)--I just want to get things done. As a 3D graphics professional, I know how to tax a system, and Mac OS X handles it all without complaint. I'm no fanboy--I just know a better product when I use it.

But I can't help you with your aversion to the metal interfaces you may encounter. If you need a bullshit reason to not use a modern Mac, well, that's as good as any. I find it amusing that for all the complaining about "style over substance" heaped upon the Mac, your primary complaints are all about the eye candy. I don't buy the cross-platform disclaimer, btw, as you know as well as I do that there's no way to make them behave the same on either platform, since the underlying metaphors are incompatible.

FYI, at work I use a Linux box more than my Mac, so it's not like I'm a Mac nut. The piece of crap Dell Inspiron at home, however, has given me more than enough Windows for one lifetime. I've packed it away for an upcoming date with eBay.

@Mark -- "In other words, it’s not that way. What’s it like, living in the past?" But I'm not living in the past -- the icons both occupy the same space and yet they have nothing to do with one another (aside from a historical perspective). That's just bad UI.

@Neal – On Windows a better example of inconsistancy is Exit. On Windows 2000 here at work on Acrobat its Ctl Q, on Canvas its Alt x, on Word its unknown. On all Mac apps going back to the beginning, including those I just listed, its always Ctl Q. And thats just the simple act of exiting an app. There are many others.

...and that Mac Users show how clever they are, yet again. Sigh.

Thanks, Aaron. I've found the analogy usually turns alot of heads. I like the T-Shirt and it's pretty obvious that doug, above, just doesn't get it. Again, doug, read what he says. Complaints like the one-button mouse versus the two-button mouse are mostly what you are used to. I've yet to find an objective study comparing a one-button mouse on a Mac and a two-button mouse on Windows to determine which is faster--though I think we can all agree that a one-button mouse on Windows is truly the worst! He doesn't like metal windows because (a) they are ugly (subjective) and (b) as a developer, there's no consistent word from Apple as to when to use one or the other (which is true). Most of the rest of the gripes are pretty subjective and--hey--everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Personally, I find Windows to be horrendously ugly.

The only thing I can say he's wrong about is the use of modifier keys as shortcuts. I can't think of one thing that you can do with modifier keys for which there isn't a longer way of doing it.

As for Mach-O, well, yeah. Mach-O probably has nice things about it that CFM didn't offer--I don't know enough of binary formats to offer an educated opinion one way or another.

But if you read it a bit, his biggest complaint is with Mac Developers porting their programs to Windows. I know there are Windows users who hate iTunes on Windows because it acts like a Mac application. I can't speak on that--I'm a Mac user--but I agree with his basic complaint of Mac applications on Windows behaving like Mac applications and not Windows applications. If anything, I would expect Mac Users would stand up and wholeheartedly agree with him--having experienced the opposite problem. But, nope, the Mac Users jump up and down--"How dare you complain about the Mac? It is perfect!"

Sigh. To quote Ronald Reagan, "There you go again."

@Kent -- on Windows, the guidelines say that you shouldn't put any shortcut, but if you must, you can do Alt+F4 (since that's the standard shortcut). I've found that Ctrl+Q tends to have its roots in Mac applications (where the menu item is called Quit). Ctrl+X has become a defacto standard (since it's E&xit), but it's still not in the guidelines.

@Peter -- You bring up very good points, and thanks for the refreshing, intelligent response!

About Mach-O... after spending months wrestling with the link format only to find out that even the guys at Apple don't fully understand it... :: grins :: I think everyone can agree that PEF apps were better. Resource forks (a great idea that just didn't catch on outside of Mac), file types (again, brilliant), etc are all PEF-specific, and quite good ideas. Mach-O is just... old and busted. I still claim PEF is new hotness. ;-)

Aaron, I actually have to take you to task on something. Believe it or not, dragging a disk icon makes perfect sense if you've used a Mac since the beginning. Unfortunately, since most people haven't, it doesn't make sense and is scary and I'm glad Apple finally dealt with it, too.

Way back in 1984, you had a computer with one floppy disk drive. This just begs the question--how do you copy files from one disk to another? Well, of course, you have to drag the file from one disk to another, but how can you do this if you only have one disk drive?

Previous to Mac OS X, the Mac file system had a concept called an off-line volume. In the Finder, you could put a disk in and it would read it and keep track of the files on the disks--not their contents, just the files. You could then Eject the disk. It's icon would still appear on the desktop. You could now put in another disk and it would read that one and you could open up the original disk and drag the icon to the disk which was inserted. Because the volume was off-line, the Mac would then put up a message saying "Insert the disk named 'Woof'" and, once you did, it would read the data. When it tried to write the data to the other disk--which was now off-line--it would put up a message saying "Insert the disk named 'Meow'" and would write the data. Because this was part of the file system--not just the Finder--you could work with as many disks as you wanted. You could have a System Folder on one disk, applications on another, and documents on a third and as long as you didn't mind getting "disk-swappers elbow", everything would work.

Of course, how did you get rid of disks? When you ejected a disk, it still had it's "off-line" icon sitting in the Finder. Well, after ejecting them, you would drag the "off-line" disk icon into the trash, thus "erasing" it. Back in 1984, nobody had any concerns about this but getting rid of disk was a two-step process--Eject the disk and then drag the icon to the trash to get it off the desktop. When I showed people how to get rid of an "off-line" disk by dragging it to the trash, nobody freaked.

With the next iteration of the Finder, they came up with the 'shortcut' of dragging a disk to the trash to eject it. Yup, people freaked out. When you showed them the old way--using Eject and dragging the off-line volume to the trash--they didn't freak. When you then showed them dragging the disk to the trash as a 'shortcut' to ejecting and dragging the off-line volume, it made more sense to everyone.

This lore was lost to the world as hard drives became the norm and people stopped booting off of floppies. Unfortunately, for reasons unknown, Apple didn't change the way 'Eject' worked until Mac OS 9!

@Peter -- Wow... I never knew that! Thanks for the interesting history lesson, I'll be sure to file that one away in my brain for a later date.

OH! Aaron, as an aside, as you may have guessed, I used to show people how to use Macs. One other trick I found which helped people freak a little less about dragging disks to the trash was to show them, first, that you could (a) take stuff out of the trash and (b) nothing is erased until you chose 'Empty Trash'. Once they understood this, if I later told them to drag a disk to the trash, they'd give me a funny look but they would do it because they knew nothing would be permanently gone until they emptied the trash.

Ack. I usually don't comment when I run into things like this, but for some reason I feel compelled. Here's the comment: no offense, but this is utterly fucking stupid. I mean that -- which is to say I mean no offense. I don't think the author, Aaron, is utterly fucking stupid. But what he wrote is, and in the spirit of constructive criticism (really) I wanted to point it out.

1) If you "want [readers] to read past the insults and learn something from [your] rant," why include insults at all?? Not to state the obvious, but it's insulting. I was insulted reading the post, and my gut response was "here comes another MS fanboy complaining about how his ten minutes on a Mac weren't both a) exactly like his experience on Windows and yet b) somehow much much better." Even as I bothered to screen out the insults, that impression stayed with me.

2) Some of your complaints are, in fact, stupid. Or stupid in terms of being UI criticism anyway. It's fine if you like Aqua better than Metal, or Windows better than OS X. But to claim that the choice of any given color scheme is a fault in the UI is both silly and wrong. It's purely subjective, and thus of no use in a rant like this.

3)Ditto for the menu bar at the top of the screen: when I first moved over to the Apple platform (about a year ago, I'm not some kind of lifelong Mac diehard) I weirded me out. But as I got used to it I came to see it as a lot more elegant and sensible than the MS menu bar model. It separates the concept of being in a program from the concept of having a given window focused. I remember when MS moved to its current model, eight or ten years ago: instead of having one MS Word thingy in the taskbar and verious documents open within the application, it gave me a separate instance of MS Word for each doc (this is how Windows is now). It seemed very strange at the time - was I running multiple copies of the app? Were they eating up all my cpu power? - but I got used to it. Just as I got used to the Mac way when I switched. Getting used to it, and thinking one's better after having experienced both, is a purely subjective matter.

4) Ditto for mice: in UI terms, don't you agree that it's important for a system to start simple and then scale up to more complicated functionality? OS X is designed to work, and work pretty well, with a single button mouse. For those who want to get things done faster, it also supports umpteen-button scroll-wheel mice as well as lots of keyboard shortcuts. The only people who have a valid gripe with the one-button mouse are in fact Mac fanboys and Apple stockholders who think Apple could convert more switchers if they gave up the one-button mouse. But in terms of SUPPORTING multi-button functionality with only a single-button mouse, I think the UI gets it right there.

5) And I don't kno what crack you're smoking, but there certainly is visual feedback when you hold the control key - even with a two-button mouse plugged in! A little representation of the contextual menu shows up next to the pointer arrow. What more feedback could you want??

6) Hm, after further testing, I see that the contextual menu visual feedback occurs in the Finder, but not in Safari. Fine, this brings up another point: if a program doesn't comply with the UI guidelines of the OS, blame those programmers, not the platform.

Summing up: it seems tat you spend more time on Windows and Linux than on OS X, and since most Linux desktops I've seen tend to emulate Windows, you're probably used to Windows-y ways of diong things. That can make you impatient when using Macs - it sure made me impatient in my first two weeks on the platform. But, for your own benefit, you should understand your subjectivity in this regard and edit it out of your published writings. Not only will this help you avoid responses like commenter #53, but it will earn your writing the respect of more level-headed and intelligent readers like myself (because currently that respect is lacking).

This is quite a rant you have written. Maybe a good date would cure you of this obsession.

Oh yeah we have a few embarassing crazies that make the rest of us Mac users look bad. But I think most of them are that way after so much persecution, missinformation and ignorance from peecee users that perpetuate FUD and myths. I believe for some of them the passion is a reation to the passion of pc zealots.

wow. why so much hatred? What crawled up your arse and died?

Wow. I feel like the old timer in the group...

Actually, Milo, Windows USED to work that way. You didn't get a separate instance of the application for each document because the "Microsoft Word" code was already loaded for the other window. NeXTSTEP worked in a similar fashion. This actually made life easier for the application developer, too, because they didn't have to do anything fancy to support multiple documents--unlike the Mac.

But what was really funny is that this started changing on Windows when Microsoft--you guessed it--PORTED Excel from the Mac. That's where they came up with the idea of having an application window with the "menu bar" and all of the application's windows inside of the application window, requiring you to expand it to full screen in order to get anything done. Microsoft, if I remember correctly, actually created a TLA called MDI--Multiple Document Interface--to describe to people developing Windows apps how to do it. Of course, if you opened up two Excel documents from Windows Explorer, you got two application windows (whereas if you opened them up from inside Excel, you got two document windows) and it all got very confusing very quickly.

@milo -- You missed the point entirely with regards to Metal vs Aqua. While I think metal is ugly as sin (subjective), I think developers should follow the HIG (objective....mostly). I'm annoyed at Apple saying "use this for A" and they turn around and use it for everything.

@DMF -- I'm sure Elissa would disagree with you. Even after dates I still get riled up over programming. :-P

@Peter -- again, good catch.

This sounds silly, but I just wanted to pass this on to the other Mac users...
When confronted, please stop defending Apple's "drag disk to the trash to eject" ! Concede that it was a never a great idea, and tell them there are better ways. Because no one needs to be told to drag-eject anymore. Say you have a new Mac user, they've never spent any quality time with the platform before. If they ask you how to eject a disk, teach them these methods:
A. In a Finder window, click the sidebar Eject arrow next to the volume name and icon.
B. Select the Eject command.
C. Press Command-E.
D. If it's an optical disk, press the Eject or F12 key on the keyboard.

There you go, four good, sensible ways to eject a volume. If you teach the drag-disk-to-trash method, you'll face embarrassing questions about why you'd need to do something that sounds as counter-intuitive as, say, clicking Start to do a shutdown in Windows.

Thanks, I just had to get that off my chest.

@Bob -- Thanks for passing along the tips. My mom has a Mac, and that was the first thing she asked me about when I told her to drag the CD to the trash. I wish I would have though about telling her to Control+Click and select Eject; it would have saved me a lot of time.

"When confronted, please stop defending Apple’s “drag disk to the trash to eject” !"

Huh? When I drag a removable, there is no Trash, only an eject symbol. What are you talking about?

@Don -- the Eject button is in the same location as the trash. It doesn't "become" the Eject button until after the user starts the drag. There are a few problems with this. 1) It's slightly confusing to users to have two vastly different operations use the same space on the desktop, and more importantly 2) When starting from a stopped space, it's impossible to tell what to do. The new user doesn't *know* the trash is the same as Eject, and doesn't expect that beginning a drag operation will morph the trash into something else.

My comments are available here

The menu bar at the top makes it a lot easier for me to get to my desktop. In windows the menu bar being at the top of every window is fricking annoying. When working in multiple applications dragging & dropping between those applications becomes an exercise in frustration. You get a menu bar on every window that is open...Slows me down, takes up screen real estate. You can easily click the wrong button on the wrong window. Whoops. Lost 10 minutes of Photoshop work. Ever see a new user (or for that matter most people in my office) with a 2 button mouse. Try talking to someone who has done tech support if you want a few laughs.Buy a two button mouse & get over it. Since when have Windows applications had any kind of UI consistency? I pop in a disk & it's three steps to open it...no visual cue to let anyone know the OS has even read the disk. I'm so confused by the metal Windows...this is a non issue. The
start menu has finally become functional. It's finally duplicated the functionality of the Apple Menu in OS7. No spring loaded folders. Double click upon double click through nested folders. Most windows desktops are full of so many "shortcuts" it makes my head hurt. How about uninstalling an application? Is it gone. Maybe. I can drag and drop just about anywhere in the Mac OS. The Classic Mac OS used to do a thing called cooperative multitasking. I have never had significant problems switching between applications & Finder windows. Windows consistency? You mean like when MS's own applications don't seem to work well together? Strange I don't see all the Windows keyboard shortcuts displayed in the open. Hmmmm must have missed that. The classic OS lasted 20 plus years. I'd call that pretty forward thinking. As for the ejecting a disc that you can't seem to get a grasp on the trash changes immediately giving a visual cue & I can eject using the eject key on the keyboard (plus others tips mentioned above). I thought I would miss the Apple Menu. I don't all I have to do is drag the hard drive icon to the dock bam, instant start menu. You came up with 3 lame examples & 2 of them had to do with the mouse. I could go on but what's the point.

Ha, ha, ha, ha. Why do you waste your time? Do you enjoy flame bait?

Give me a break, would ya?

This is really funny, let's keep it rolling. i use mac everyday, hates windows, and hate even more mac idiots that hate windows users -see, it's possible! But i just want to kick in really to stand proudly (and very lonely it seems) and be on the record: I LOVE THE BRUSHED-METAL LOOK !! i can't get enough of it, i'd like my whole house to have the brushed-metal look, inside AND outside, and i'm not kidding! So that's it, thousands against, one for it. Now, i feel better!

Okay you've got a break...now what?

You must not be too smart. Not only you show that you don't know much about Macs (which have had multitasking working fine since the days of System 7), but you mix arguments with stupid insults. Yes, applications should not be ported to another platform without changing the UI (that's so obvious!), and Mac OS X's interface is not perfect (also obvious), but to say that "the Mac sucks as any other OS" is plain wrong. BTW, the control-click convention is good and does not need any explaining (it does not violate any good UI rules). I hope I will never have to use any application that you write because I know it won't be good. In fact, I know that I won't because I don't use Windoze. Ah, now I feel better.

I think it's hilarious that the Mac is too complicated for you to use. I'm not surprised though. Normally the Mac's advanced user interface is more than the average pee cee drone can comprehend until Microsoft makes some fucked up imitation. Besides who has the time when fighting viruses is a full time job, right? Many raving Windows zealots have the same type of problem so know that being stupid is where you've sifted out in life.. still I'm sure your mom still loves her little moron, right? No doubt stuff like breathing and reading at the same time are a challenge for you... and Windows is your natural home, trust me. It's good to know what pisses you off and I'll try to work your tips into a future response.

jean-paul (#90):
Your first few sentences make little sense, but anyway... I agree. The brushed metal look kicks ass. But honestly, I never notice which app uses which, nor do I care. It changes absolutely nothing, and in my opinion, Aqua and Brushed Metal don't clash at all, so it doesn't matter.

Boy, you really got a lot of built up anger and frustration man, you need to listen to iTunes and chill a while... that is if you can get your virus infested windows box to run long enough! LOL

MS User Interface Theory: "the user will always adapt to our way of accomplishing a task no matter how illogical or how many steps it takes" - example - Start menu is the most confusing collection of overly embedded levels of more menus only some of which actually contain applications that you want to start. Then of course, you have to click the start menu to shut the computer down --- brilliant.

@Pete -- see #61 for a response to the Start menu. As for the Start menu containing a list of the applications installed in the system... it makes sense. You *Start* there because the general purpose of a computer is to run applications. However, on the Mac, you have to figure out where all the applications live because there's no centeral menu for me to get at them. I have to hunt them down in the file system. But! Each to their own -- that's the Mac way, and it's just as confusing as the Windows way (and the Linux way is worse still!). Personally, I prefer the Windows way because I am used to not wanting to hunt thru the file system. I can see how old-school Mac users prefer the Mac way because that's how they learned as well.

First of all, your need to use profanity to make your point shows a notable lack of communication skills. Second, I've always thought that one of the drawbacks of the Internet it that any idiot with half a brain can spout nonsense and go "Hey! Look at me! I'm a writer". You are proof positive. Hint: If you want to be a writer, read more than you write.

Why is it that you people are so hung up about a one-button mouse? Is it because you can't figure out what to do with your middle finger besides sticking it up your ass? If you want a two button mouse, stop whining and go buy one. It works!

I have never seen the situation of two modal dialogs being on the screen at the same time. I don't think it's even possible. If you insist that it can happen, describe how to make it happen. On the other hand, windows is notorious for the ease in the way a modal dialog can hide behind an application window, effectively freezing the app and giving no indication that is waiting for a dialog to be clicked. In OS X, a modal dialog is part of the application window so it can never hide.

Fair point about how applications should be consistent across the platform. If you did some actual research instead of bile spewing, you would find out that the Mac has always been better in that regard than Windows. As for cross-platform consistency, it is hardly fair to blame Apple for what is an application design decision by a third party.

To you main point about Mac users. If you took a look around the Macoverse, you would be surprised at how much Mac users criticize aspect