So for a long time, I've been quite active on realgurus. However, I think I need a change of scenery. After being called a "Windows whore" and just the general childish bitchiness of many people over there, I need a break from it. I'm not required to talk to *anyone* outside of REAL Software -- and I pretty well despise being treated like shit with the expectation that it's my job to take it. It amazes me that someone can bitch at me about how my company treats all customers horribly and we're all terrible people, and then a day later, the same person will ask for my help. So, as far as I'm concerned -- fuck em. I'm fed up.
I usually am pretty thick-skinned, and I can handle criticism (though I handle it better when it's constructive, but even someone just venting off steam doesn't bother me). And some people have some very legit complaints, usually involving some bug or another. What bothers me is when someone attacks me personally -- like I put a bug into the product just to make them miserable. And even worse than that are the armchair interface zealots spewing off about how we hate our customers, yada yada yada. I kid you not, here's one of the oh-so-intelligent postings I have been reading on an almost daily basis,
"Come now, the new interface has nothing to do with a Macintosh. Lets see here, RS wasn't pleased with the number of units they were selling to Windows users because in the words of a RS employee Windows users were being forced to use a Mac like interface. So to sell more units to Windows users they get rid of the Mac interface altogether and give us a Windows interface. Then to try and keep their Mac customer base for the time being while they work out bugs in RB 2005 they make up some shit about the interface is inspired by Safari. Who gives a rat's ass about Safari - its a browser. What utter fuckin money grubbing liars. They should be tarred, feathered, and then partially burned alive at the stake only to allow their skin to heal so they can burned again. Twisted EvilGee, go figure, invest 10K in Mac hardware and software and then the company wants you to use a Windows interface. NO customer loyalty: "To show our appreciation for supporting us all these years we've decided to fuck you Mac users over because we need more money - 2nd vacation homes don't come cheap you know". They want to sell more Windows units then I don't want see or hear about at all, now do I want to suffer for the sake of brained washed Windows users: "
And I'm supposed to help people like this? The only way I'd like to help this particular person is into on-coming traffic with a hardy shove.
What pisses me off, and the main reason I'm boycotting the site is because I've found I spend more time defending myself or my job than I do helping people solve their problems. The only reason I started answering questions over there was because people had a lot of programming questions, and I enjoy helping people out. Since that's the sort of abuse I can expect for trying to be helpful, then I'll find other things to do with my time.
I don't blame you. Not to suck up, but...
1) The new interface rocks. At first glance during RW04, I was horrified. But that wore off after about 5 minutes. By the end of Geoff's demo, I was sold. Still am. The old interface was great on the Mac, but horrendous on Windows. The new one is brilliant cross-platform.
2) I never spent much time at realgurus because the users never struck me as a very mature crowd. I was very surprised to find you active there (take that as a compliment).
3) You, and every other RS employee I've dealt with, have been nothing but supportive and accommodating to the user base. Anyone who thinks otherwise either hasn't been paying attention or is fixating on one or two bugs.
Keep on keeping on, Aaron. I appreciate how helpful you are on the NUG and the Beginners' list.
Thanks for the encouraging words. :-) I suspect my activity on the mailing lists will pick back up now that I have more resources to spread around. My presence on the lists has been lacking since I started on the boards due to a lack of time.
I'll second that. I've put in many years of helpdesk-type support as well as doing application programming, so I know what it's like both dealing with the general public and dealing with the code. Both are prone to being harsh and unforgiving as the mood strikes. RS in general provides exemplary support, above and beyond the norm for this industry, and you're a good example. It's what makes me more than just a loyal customer, even when RB doesn't always behave as I might like ;) But RB does rock, and your hard work shows. I say spend your time where it does the most good.
PS - I'm using RB 2005 on a 400Mhz G3 running OS X--can you say "pokey"? But I still like the 2005 interface better than 5.5, so what does that tell you? "No customer loyalty" indeed! Sheesh!
I'm fed up with the trolls on the boards also, and I think members should have been banned that weren't (uh, subclassed for starters). Maybe RS should start their own RB oriented board where they could ban trolls (not criticism, trolls).
-- SirG3
Oh, and thanks for all the help / support you've given. It's very much appreciated, espicially since you're not required to do it.
-- SirG3
I'd love to see sanctioned message boards "owned" by realsoftware simply because it lends more credit to them. However, the trouble with free speech is that it applies to everyone, even trolls. One of the nice things about message boards is that you don't need to sign up -- you can just browse, ask a question, etc. Basically, you can go to the data, instead of the data coming to you. But if we were to ban trolls, we'd have to turn off the ability to post as a guest, which limits the functionality of the message board.
I think message boards should be open so anyone can post what they'd like, even trolls. It's no fun being flamed in public, but it's better than the alternative extremes. ;-)
Don't let it bother you - just stick to the NUG etc. A lot of the people that hang out on forums are script-kiddies and other parasites. If you don't like that kind of crap, I warn you not to release anything on VersionTracker - the comments there are vicious!
To add my penny's-worth: your contribution to the community should put you up at least a couple of pay-brackets.. Tell Geoff I said so! Who's with me?
lol, thanks Charlie -- and I'm with you. A few higher pay brackets is never a bad thing when you're building/buying a house. :-P
sounds to me like you should start your own... :)
Hey, looking forward to hearing more on the mailing lists! Between this blog and the mailing list, you're an invaluble asset to the community.
Here, here!
I just love receiving the occasional email from someone who has obviously spent too much time on Slashdot, and figures that if someone's charging you money for a product, and you do something they don't like, it's obviously some conspiracy to screw them over somehow.
Hey, did you replace me at my job without telling me? ;-)
Don't take immature people to heart. These are the same people who feel the need to slam every product on VersionTracker -- you know the ones: "I paid my hard-earned $3 for this professional programming/PDF/graphics/disk/video utility so it better be just the way _I_ like it. Screw all the other customers. I'm going to hold my breath until it has the feature I want or looks the way I want."
Just distance yourself from them for a while (maybe they'll grow up in the meantime) and limit yourself to the people you truly help and who appreciate that help. You'll feel much better.
"...and limit yourself to the people you truly help and who appreciate that help. You’ll feel much better." ~Scott
Yea! and who appreciates you more than your loyal blog readers!
Thanks for all the tips and insight Aaron... It is much appreciated.
~joe
Aaron, don't spent your energy to such creatures, that kind of bastards enyoy degrading people.
I know we do disagree about some issues but that doesn't mean i don't like what you stand for. So head up and move on with your good work for the RB-community.
(Oh.. just to help remember, i thought you had shoes with iron nose, kick them under the ....ahum)
Hey Aaron.
Everyone here's right. You're a good guy who certainly doesn't deserve the crap you take on RG. After ready the quote in this post, I can't believe that the moderator of the board didn't at least delete that post, nevermind block that user. I've belonged to several messageboards and chatrooms in my life and they generally had posted policies about respectful exchanges. If someone got out of hand, they would be given up to 2 warnings. After that they were banned for a week. If they came back and started right back, they were banned for a month. After that, it was a permanent ban. They also had a policy that should you behave exceptionally well, they would remove the "probation" and reset you're warnings, etc. Maybe RG needs to consider a policy like that (and not only consider it... stick to it!)
No one needs to have to put up with being targeted that crap. Even the other (non-targeted) users shouldn't have to listen to that.
Please explain how the new interface in 2005 has anything to do with the Macintosh interface? Nothing! Is is not a fact you were hired by Real Software to transform their product into a more Windows friendly product because the old interface sucked on Windows? But instead of just adjusting the Windows interface RS decides to entirely get rid of the previous Macintosh interface so Windows users will be more happy. What a bunch of hypocrites - it was previously not o.k. to run a Mac like interface on Windows, but not its o.k. to run a Windows interface on a Mac. I am suppose to be happy RS has decided to get rid of the Mac interface and waste my money and years of my time.
Hi Aaron,
I check your blog everyday to see what goodies you might be sharing that day. I even check in on the personal stuff now and then (congrats on the house!). I have been using REALbasic since 1.0 in 1998. You should consider yourself an asset to this community as all of us REAL REALbasic users do. I pretty much gave up on the realgurus site until I learned you were posting there because I never learned anything from anyone else there. Now that you're gone, I suspect I won't be spending any time on that site anymore either.
Thanks for your contributions!
@Almost everyone -- thanks for the ego boost. Here I was just venting off some steam. :-P
@BoyCott 2005 -- if you're unhappy, then take advantage of the money-back guarantee and move on. Bitching on my blog isn't going to help your cause any.
BoyCott 2005-
Please change your name. It sounds too much like me trying to be Boy George. I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight with that image in my head.
It's sad what's happened over on the boards, and I admire that you've put up with it for as long as you have. Some people are just jerks, and never heard that old saying about biting the hand that feeds you. Not all of us are like that, you know. Thanks for the help.
KJ
@KrakerJak -- oh, I know that the majority of people are actually quite decent. It frustrates me to leave so many good people "behind" just because of a very whiny and vocal few. But then again, when I find myself getting angry about going to a website, it's time to stop going there.
But it's not like I'm disappearing off the face of the earth and becoming a hermit. :-P I'm just diverting my time into other areas.
Hi Aaron,
As far as I'm concerned you're about the most generous person with your time and knowledge I've ever come across. I can go clear back to the days when the 6502 CPU was the king of the computing world and only name a couple of people who came close to being as generous and helpful to so many people. I certainly don't know where you get the energy to keep up with all the contributions to the community you provide.
While I've loudly disagreed with an item or two regarding the RB interface I hope I've done so respectfully. I really appreciate the amount of thought you put into the decisions you make regarding the kind of items I've sniveled about. I may not get what I want (or think I want) but you leave me with the distinct feeling that you consider whatever I have to say.
I don't know how much RS pays you but I'm positive it's not what you're worth!
I'm a dedicated fan. Didja need any help with that hardy shove?
Oh... And thank you for all the help you've provided me both directly and indirectly.
Holy shamoly. I've never visited realgurus until today. What a place.
And I thought the RS bashing on RS's own lists was bad.
Thanks for all your help in the past, Aaron, and if you find yourself down near Waconia, I'll buy you a beer or two.
I'm a member of REALGurus and I've valued having you around. I also think its amazing you've lasted so long - I would told everyone to f*** off a long time ago!
Thanks for all the help you've given.
You are the man! Don't listen too closely to disgruntled lamos. In fact, I'm heading over to the PayPal donate button because I have learned so much from you and your blog.
Hi Aaron,
Thanks for all the support and info about RB! You are shurely a value to the RB community and you will be missed dearly on the RG forum if I may say so, but...
I was on the RG forum for only a short while (month or so?) and during that time I repeatedly imagened myself in your shoes and to be fair: I would have abandoned that ship even sooner... As you say: it's a shame for the people that come over there and search for 'wisdom', but a person can only take that much crap and you just got too much of it. I would not blame it on the moderators, as some people here do, it's a bitch to 'fairly' regulate a forum without being called a tiran, but they could have taken some action.
I am just a visitor and user of the RG forum, but if they may take action against this type of trolls and clean things up a bit, I would shure hope you would reconsider leaving the forum permanently, maybe check back after a month or so? ;-)
A question: can you name some places we might enjoy your help? Sites or other places on the net?
BTW: RB is a very nice product and IMO a lot value for it's money.
@Mario -- currently, I'm just working on the blog, perhaps some articles to post on my website or publish and trying to get more active on the mailing lists. I'm sure I'll peek in on rg every once in a while to see whether things have changed (or the site has imploded on itself), but I've lost my enthusiasm for it -- that's for sure. :-P
Sorry to see you go from the boards, Aaron, you were always an invaluable help. It's just a shame that the whiners win the day and spoil it for the rest of us who had genuine programming questions and weren't there to piss and moan about capitalism, global warming and the trouble in the Middle East.. which is also clearly down to RS.
All the best.
Denise :)
In the interest of fairness, and in my own defense, I'd like to put down a few facts here about the RealGurus forum:
RealGuru (owner of the site) posted a message decrying the moderators for "abusing" the moderation options, because Aaron posted job listings on the site and made them sticky. Now, 1) RealGuru had *never* defined exactly what was considered "abuse" and what was not, 2) the other mods, other than Aaron, were perfectly fine with the posting and didn't see anything wrong with it, and 3) it was up over a week before RealGuru posted about it.
Shortly afterward, he removed moderator priviledges from everybody except one. (And the one who remains has told me, via IM, that he doesn't plan to participate in the site any longer.) (RealGuru himself doesn't seem to sign on to the board very often... at most, once a week, so he isn't available to do any moderation himself.)
A board with no moderators draws trolls like a magnet, and in they swarmed until every single topic had a complaint about how the RB 2005 interface wasn't "Mac-like." I don't blame Aaron for leaving; I've left myself, actually. But you have to understand, Scott P, that the board had dedicated and responsible moderators who, until a weeks ago, *would* have removed that topic and banned subclassed back when he was *first* a problem.
I'm washing my hands of the whole affair and getting the hell out of Dodge.
Aaron.. You will be missed!! I understand though. You have helped me so much in the past. (I sent you 5 bucks, btw!!) Maybe I could hire you for my silly questions, I most certainly will have in the future!!
Cory
@James & Scott P.:
You're right, the RG board certainly had it's problems, but I doubt there was any intensions behind it. RealGuru posted that he did not have the chance to check on a regular basis and things got out of hand very slowly.
Aaron leaving has certainly started a discussion on the board and I think changes will come soon. There is a wanted message for new moderators and I hope things will turn out for the good soon. I hate to see such a board go, because for me it's the best place to be when I have questions about RB. I'm also on the mailing list, but to be honest the list generates so much data, that I stopped reading it. People also ask the same question over and over, without the possibility to search in the archives. I really would like a RB forum, with well behaving people and a bunch of sharp mods ofcours! ;-)
For those that were on the RG forum once: please keep an eye on the forum, I hope it will change for the better to become a nice station to gather intel on this great piece of software.
A quick look at the realgurus forums reminds me of why I just stick to the mailing lists.
Aaron,
For what it's worth, I'm a vb.net developer who didn't think of giving RB a chance until I began to read through the postings on realgurus. Your postings always stood out the most due to the knowledge and professionalism that were put into them. I began to realize that RB would perform perfectly for what I was using vb.net to develop. So, I realize that it's tough to deal with the negative comments from the crowd that can't ever be pleased, but just realize that your expert advice has not gone unappreciated by all of us.
Best wishes,
Ron