(I know, two posts in one day, that's crazy!)
I absolutely cannot believe Apple... but they really managed to irk me today. I mean *really* irked me. Bad enough that once I calm down, they're going to get a "complaint" from me.
So I went to a website (http://realbasic.tv) because I wanted to check it out. And when I got there to watch a QuickTime movie, I was prompted to install the QuickTime plugin. But I don't like installing QuickTime on any of my Windows machines (because it breaks just about every Ux guideline on the planet). So I hit cancel on their custom installer (they don't even use the system services to install an ActiveX control!!!). No big whoop.
About twenty minutes later, I notice the QuickTime "Q" in my taskbar. It turns out that even though I hit Cancel on the clearly labeled "would you like to download and install QuickTime" dialog box, it went ahead and downloaded and installed QuickTime. Now I'm pissed, but bugs happen.
So I go to uninstall QuickTime from my machine. Except there's no uninstaller. It's not listed anywhere in my installed programs list! I checked in the usual place, and I checked in the registry manually. Sure enough, there's no uninstaller for the application. What's more fun, it's installed the files into Program Files, and it's placed files into my registry. So I have to manually figure out how to uninstall the application I didn't want in the first place and told NOT to install on my machine!
People ask me why I don't install Apple products onto any of my non-Apple machines, and this is yet another example of why. They blatantly ignore Ux guidelines, and are basically one step away from malware on Windows. Don't even get me started on the user experience for working with iTunes on Windows (which Lis has the unfortunate need for due to owning an iPod).
While I agree that QuickTime Player (and iTunes) is in general crap, I can't say I've ever ran into this.
I find it a little disheartening that a Real Software employee is so anti-Apple. I know this is your personal blog and you don't represent the company, but every week or two I'll see something basically flaming Apple or one of their products. I would guess that there are many more Mac RealBasic users than Windows due to Visual basic and the fact that RB was available for Mac first (if I recall correctly).
The quality of Apple products for Windows is generally the same as the quality of Microsoft products for Mac. They both suck, they both follow their native OS'es rules (Mac programs generally don't have uninstallers, WMP for Mac is completely terrible in every way, etc).
I wouldn't have commented, but I've seen numerous posts here before bashing Apple or their products. You seem like a very smart person, and RealSoftware seems like a small enough company where opinions of yours could matter (ie, the anti-Mac opinions).
@guest -- I don't recall the last time I flamed Apple for something, but honestly, this seems perfectly appropriate. Not only is it fine to warn others of this obvious bug with an Apple product, but it's also a good example for cross platform programmers to see exactly what *not* to do.
I don't just pick on Apple (and I feel that when I do, it's justified) either; you'll see other examples too (ipswitch comes to mind).
You hit the nail on the head with your comment about Microsoft products on the Mac. They're horrible! Absolutely, astonishingly horrendous. I'm simply pointing out two things with this post: (1) How not to develop cross-platform software, and (2) How incredibly annoyed I am at Apple since I feel like they should know better.
well, i totally agree. I have an ipod which now my gf uses. I tried MediaMonkey and some other plugin for Windows Media Player to sync with my Ipod but just didnt work out the way I wanted. I would never get another ipod just for that fact. I want something I can easily sync with.
Aaron is not "anti-Apple", and as far as I know he's not working within Real Software to eliminate Mac OS support.
Doesn't Vista have some sort of 'Rollback" to previous state do-dad? I mean, apple does, and I would have expected Microsoft to copy that also... ;>
@Charles -- yup, that's right.
@Bill -- yeah, Windows has had that sort of thing for ages. I tend to only use that for very drastic measures though since the rollback can encompass other changes as well. For instance, since the app didn't seem to have a regular installer (there's no uninstaller, after all), I can't be sure the system made a restore point before the installation. So I might have to go back a few weeks.
Apple is interested in getting feedback from people using QuickTime on Vista and has a specific Vista feedback page you might want to check out.
https://appleseed.apple.com/QTVistaSurvey/run/
On my XP system there's both a QuickTime Uninstaller in the QuickTime program group and QuickTime is listed in the Add or Remove Programs Control Panel.
So I uninstalled QuickTime, and then went to the REALbasic.tv page and clicked on the link to view a video in a popup. I tried both IE and Firefox and they both offered to download the QuickTime plugin. I clicked Cancel and neither one semed to install QuickTime. But if they had I'd consider it a BROWSER bug since that's the app that posted that dialog.
I don't have Vista installed yet so I can't test there. But QuickTime seemes to behave just fine on my XP system.
Bill, where can I find this rollback feature you speak of in Mac OS X?
In true Windows fashion, you should run the QuickTime installer. Reboot. Then run the uninstaller and reboot.
@guest -- Please cut the "anti-apple" crap-o-la. I develop for Windows & Linux even though you won't see me running those OSes on a daily basis. I'm a Mac guy. Aaron was complaining about an installer bug.
Interesting; Windows Media Player also breaks every UI guideline on the planet and has no true uninstaller. :-P
Anyway, I actually agree that it's good to avoid QuickTime on Windows. Which is why I regret that REALbasic forces me to use QuickTime due to the following bug:
http://realsoftware.com/feedback/kfgipbby
Movies have no height and width on Windows with WMP
Yep. QuickTime and the various iterations of Windows QuickTime installers throughout the years have been awful.
I'm really surprised anyone can get QuickTime working properly on PCs anyway. I've had nothing but problems anytime I installed or tried to upgrade QuickTime on a Windows box. I was a Mac guy from the mid-'90's until about 2001. I didn't have too much trouble with QuickTime on Macs, but oh my goodness, on Windows...
Shame on you and your developers, Steve Jobs! You're not gonna win over any Windows users doing stupid stuff like this.
I do find Steve's complaint that using a third party plugin for a product that's not designed ot be used with an iPod somehow ends up so he won't buy and iPod.
I wonder when a Zune will sync with iTunes on a Mac and be officially supported.
100 million+ iPods sold suggests they have it mostly right.
Apple breaks Windows UI guidelines. MS breaks them.
They all do.
But an installer that asks and installs anyways should be reported.
@Norm -- I think Steve's point is that the "normal" application to use with iPod sucks so much that he had to look for 3rd party ways to use his purchase, and those blow too.
I have QT working on my 2 windows boxes just fine. I know they break UI guidelines, but I don't know of many media players that don't. QT, WMP, winamp. They all have very non-standard UIs that I find rather annoying. I think the QT UI is more usable (imho) than either WMP or winamp. WMP has a weird skin thing that moves the close button around. Winamp has something similar, and breaks it all up into weird windows. Maybe it is because I used only macs for the first 16 years of my life ;).
It installing anyway is a big problem. But I do see uninstallers clearly marked in the usual places on XP. I don't (and, after a bad experience, won't) have Vista.
@jdiwnab -- you seem to be mistaking a Ux (user experience) complaint with a UI (user interface) complaint. UI is a subset of Ux, but is by no means the main aspect of Ux. Ux encompasses things like what functionality exists, how does the app install/uninstall, things like that. UI is basically how does the app look.
I know most media players don't follow UI guidelines for whatever reason. But most of them follow Ux guidelines just fine. iTunes and QuickTime don't generally follow Ux guidelines on Windows (irreversible operations which can't be undone come to mind). In this case, QT broke a major Ux rule -- it installed itself without an uninstaller, even after I specifically told their custom UI to not install in the first place.
And yes, I have reported this issue to Apple with a nice, detailed report. We'll see what comes of it.
@Aaron - dunno what sucks so much about it.
Everyone I've ever shown it to that has any interest in an iPod finds it much easier to use than WMP and has gotten rid of WMP completely beucase the UI was more complicated than it needed to be.
But that's personal preferences.
As for having to find third party ways to use his purchase Apple desiged he iPod and iTunes to work together. Dont want to use one or the other you deserve what you get.
Kind of like trying to use a Mac keyboard on a PC or a PC keyboard one a Mac. it ostly wors but the little thiings that don't eventually irritate the hell out of you.
Aaron,
Is there any chance you hit the wrong button? Were the cancel and install button in the Mac or PC positions?
I know on PCs I often cancel when I don't mean to because I am used to the Mac button placement conventions. Even though I read the labels and think I'm pressing the correct button my hand goes to the wrong place out of habit!
@Norm -- that's ok that you don't understand what sucks about it. But most users find it to be horrendous, and for good reason. It really boils down to the fact that Apple software on Windows blows every bit as much as Microsoft software on Mac blows. They may be functional enough to get the job done (in some cases; I don't think WMP on Mac really gets the job done.), but they're still horrible.
@Karen -- that was the first thing I wondered about, but the buttons were very clear: Install and Cancel. I know I hit Cancel because I had to find it manually. And even if I did hit Install instead of Cancel, I'd still expect an uninstaller. Actually, what's even more jarring to me is that it was an *ActiveX* control -- there's no reason a web browser plugin should ever install something in my task bar!
The thing I really hate about Quicktime is that it installs crap in your taskbar without asking. Even after I remove it from the taskbar, it reinstalls itself there whenever Quicktime gets an update, even a small one. Why, Apple? Why??
Howdy,
I've run into this a couple of times with Quicktime. In both those cases, the person actually wanted QT and iTunes installed, but the install was broken, in exactly the way you mention, and the QT installer wouldn't finish. I ended up having to install Quicktime Alternative, which I highly recommend to anyone that would rather not use QT, and after that I was able to uninstall QT Alternative, which cleared up the overall issue.
Good luck,
Fargo
PS- Love the WFS.
I don't know about Vista but when I installed XP, Quicktime was on there by default (I don't remeber downloading it, but then again I could have), could that be the possibility???
Of course I do get the point, an installer that installs software even if you don't want to would really bug the crap out of me.
@Jordan -- I can assure you that vanilla XP doesn't come with Apple software on it. ;-)
Okay. I have just experienced this, and I've gone through the usual waves of anger and frustration: "Why did this install when I told it not too? Who put this in my systray? Why does this start on bootup but it's not in the startup folder? Where's the uninstaller?"
So... Could you please post up exactly how to get rid of it? Do I really need to download and infect my machine with the full version in order to get this off my machine?
@Greg -- the way that I got rid of it was to remove the QuickTime directory from Program Files (it may be under an Apple directory too, not certain). Then, go into the registry with RegEdit and remove any references to QuickTime. The HKCU\Software\Microsoft\CurrentVersion\Run* keys will have something, as will the HKCU\Software\Apple (or was it QuickTime?) key. I just did a search for QuickTime and Apple and removed whatever seemed suspicious.